Aftermarket Intake/Exhaust Options - 3.0L Turbo

[SirLapsalot]

Looking for some advice from the experienced 3.0L turbo crowd. I'm building a relatively mild/tame 8V 3.0L turbo for basic commuter street driving and have a few areas where I'm unsure what the best options are these days.

Basic Engine Assembly Specifications:
Block = 2.7L --> Currently at Millennium Technologies being overbored to 104.5mm and NSC plated.
Head = 2.7L 8V gone through by MM.
Crank = 968
Pistons = Mahle/Andial 104.5mm turbo pistons --> Still need to purchase NSC compatible rings
Rods = Undecided
Intake = Undecided
Exhaust = Undecided

Questions:
1. For those who have used the Hayward intake, how was fitment? I'm curious in a like-for-like swap with stock parts how is the clearance to turbo and other surrounding parts. I will ultimately fit a larger turbo, but if the hayward is already a tighter fit than the OE intake to the turbo and surrounding parts then I'll have to plan for more fabrication.

2. Pauter rods seemed popular in the past. Is that still the case? Will a 2.7L block need clearanced for the Pauter rods? Are there better options out there now? Stronger/lighter?

3. I'd like to ditch the OE exhaust manifold and cross over, however I don't get much enjoyment out of exhaust fabrication. Is there a reasonable aftermarket combination available? I can't seem to find much online so maybe not?

Lastly, yes I know 16V is better, more power, blah blah blah. Anyway, I'm building an 8V.

Any advice on these questions is much appreciated!

[michaelmount123]

Sounds like a fun project, Sirlaps. I can address one of your questions:
2. Pauter makes a great rod. So does Molnar, IMO, and at a lower price point. Both of these aftermarket rods will clear the pan rail on your 2.7 block, whereas a 951 rod will not.
MM

[Tom]

Looking for some advice from the experienced 3.0L turbo crowd. I'm building a relatively mild/tame 8V 3.0L turbo for basic commuter street driving and have a few areas where I'm unsure what the best options are these days.

Basic Engine Assembly Specifications:
Block = 2.7L --> Currently at Millennium Technologies being overbored to 104.5mm and NSC plated.
Head = 2.7L 8V gone through by MM.
Crank = 968
Pistons = Mahle/Andial 104.5mm turbo pistons --> Still need to purchase NSC compatible rings
Rods = Undecided
Intake = Undecided
Exhaust = Undecided

Questions:
1. For those who have used the Hayward intake, how was fitment? I'm curious in a like-for-like swap with stock parts how is the clearance to turbo and other surrounding parts. I will ultimately fit a larger turbo, but if the hayward is already a tighter fit than the OE intake to the turbo and surrounding parts then I'll have to plan for more fabrication.

2. Pauter rods seemed popular in the past. Is that still the case? Will a 2.7L block need clearanced for the Pauter rods? Are there better options out there now? Stronger/lighter?

3. I'd like to ditch the OE exhaust manifold and cross over, however I don't get much enjoyment out of exhaust fabrication. Is there a reasonable aftermarket combination available? I can't seem to find much online so maybe not?

Lastly, yes I know 16V is better, more power, blah blah blah. Anyway, I'm building an 8V.

Any advice on these questions is much appreciated!

I have not used the Hayward intake, so cannot comment on it. That said, I did try the SFR intake for a short time, and was not able to confirm any power gain over my 951 intake. My 951 intake is port-matched to the oval ports of the 2.7 head and, in my experience, is not a meaningful restriction for a basic commuter street driver 3 liter motor. (Same with the intercooler, but the way, unless you need a bigger one to combat heat soak on a track.) @michaelmount123 might have a more informed opinion on whether the head he prepared needs more than a port-matched 951 intake, so I'd defer to him if he says I'm crazy.

Hard to go wrong with good old Carrillo rods. They clear the 2.7 bottom end with 3 liter crank. It's my understanding that Pauter will clear too, but I've never personally confirmed that. I'm sure both are plenty for the motor you have in mind.

Speedforce Racing makes headers and cross-overs, but they aren't cheap and are more akin to bespoke, commissioned parts than off-the-shelf -- i.e., you sometimes need to be very patient.... Other tuner shops have made similar parts over the years, but they tend to come and go quickly.

Be careful with the Mahle-Andial 104.5 pistons. My motor is very similar to the one you are planning, with those pistons, and they cc out closer to 9:1 compression unless you take steps to bring that down.

Edit: my post crossed with MM's...

[michaelmount123]

Oh...
Meant to mention that if you're going with Mahle pistons, they can also provide the Nikasil compatible rings. Getting them along with the pistons also ensures a proper ring fit with the pistons too. Make sure you check/set the ring end gaps, but I think you know this.
MM

[SirLapsalot]

Thanks guys.

Rods - Understood regarding clearance. I think I might have had the OE rod clearance concern confused with some aftermarket rods. So, I'm happy to know Paurter/Molnor/Carillo are all OK.

Intake - I suppose I should clarify my reason behind looking for something other than OE.
#1- I actually don't care that much about outright performance, I care less about peak flow numbers or HP numbers and more about ease of install (clearance, modifications or lack thereof), esthetics, and torque curve. If the Hayward intake offers a wider mid-range torque curve over OE I'd be interested in that. If the Hayward intake offers more clearance than OE then I'd most definitely be inclined to go with it. The Lindsey Racing intake looks to offer the most clearance but I find it to be very ugly so that basically rules it out for me regardless of how functional it is.

#2 - I found with my 2.5L that I had a very strange peak in my VE table around 2300rpm. I had my open loop lambda control near perfect to my standards (~1-2%) across the entire useable rev range, including this area with no other oddities so my assumption was there may be some strange resonance occurring with the intake or some intentional resonance designed by Porsche for mid-range NA response. While I do prefer to keep mid-range performance I would be curious to see if that behavior goes away with an aftermarket intake manifold or not. Since I'm changing displacement and possibly exhaust side characteristics it might be a moot point but maybe I'll keep OE intake a first to test that out.


Headers + Cross over - The SFR stuff looks very nice, but the lead times and quality off work horror stories I've seen online are a bit concerning. There's two sides to every story so I'm not ruling them out, but we'll see.

Pistons/rings - Thanks Tom for the note about piston cc. It's an important thing to consider. Thanks MM about the Mahle rings. I was wasn't sure if I should go straight to Total Seal or Mahle direct.

[333pg333]

As to headers / X-over, I'd be inclined to find a shop in your area that you can get recommendations for and have them make a bespoke set. I've done this a few times and it's worked out well.

Same with intake if you want. Unless you are prepared to pay crazy big money for CNC'd billet stuff, the welded versions can work efficiently but just don't look quite as smart. Another option is to take an already existing plenum and have them port match some runners up to it. I remember Tim, one of the UK guys doing this with an aftermarket Supra plenum (cutting it down a little) and finishing up with a decent looking and working product.

You can use a stock flange and cut it back to then fit runners or get some cnc'd up. We did both for 2 different intakes. You can buy generic runners and weld them to suit packaging and performance intentions.

[Thom]

Since you are comfortable tuning your engine yourself I would suggest starting with a "basic" 3L 8V build using as many stock parts as possible to keep initial costs down, iron it out, break it in and appreciate the performance as is before considering modifying ancillaries. This should give you a better picture of how this type of engine works and what needs to be done down the line depending on your use.

[Bergerac]

Looking for some advice from the experienced 3.0L turbo crowd. I'm building a relatively mild/tame 8V 3.0L turbo for basic commuter street driving and have a few areas where I'm unsure what the best options are these days.

Basic Engine Assembly Specifications:
Block = 2.7L --> Currently at Millennium Technologies being overbored to 104.5mm and NSC plated.
Head = 2.7L 8V gone through by MM.
Crank = 968
Pistons = Mahle/Andial 104.5mm turbo pistons --> Still need to purchase NSC compatible rings
Rods = Undecided
Intake = Undecided
Exhaust = Undecided

Questions:
1. For those who have used the Hayward intake, how was fitment? I'm curious in a like-for-like swap with stock parts how is the clearance to turbo and other surrounding parts. I will ultimately fit a larger turbo, but if the hayward is already a tighter fit than the OE intake to the turbo and surrounding parts then I'll have to plan for more fabrication.

2. Pauter rods seemed popular in the past. Is that still the case? Will a 2.7L block need clearanced for the Pauter rods? Are there better options out there now? Stronger/lighter?

3. I'd like to ditch the OE exhaust manifold and cross over, however I don't get much enjoyment out of exhaust fabrication. Is there a reasonable aftermarket combination available? I can't seem to find much online so maybe not?

Lastly, yes I know 16V is better, more power, blah blah blah. Anyway, I'm building an 8V.

Any advice on these questions is much appreciated!

If you find another option to SFR for crossovers etc let me know, even Mr Broadfoot called them out on facebook today for delay and quality issues. Haven't found a anything else on the market so I'm going for custom....again

Can vouch for the quality of the Hayward manifolds but not the fit for the 8V.

[SirLapsalot]

Since you are comfortable tuning your engine yourself I would suggest starting with a "basic" 3L 8V build using as many stock parts as possible to keep initial costs down, iron it out, break it in and appreciate the performance as is before considering modifying ancillaries. This should give you a better picture of how this type of engine works and what needs to be done down the line depending on your use.

That's not a bad suggestion. I somewhat considered this at first but the extra work involved in port matching the OE turbo manifold for the NA head was enough to make me consider looking for an aftermarket option. At this point though, it might be easier to just port match and go, then later down the line move to some aftermarket "performance" manifold to see if any gains can be made.

If you find another option to SFR for crossovers etc let me know, even Mr Broadfoot called them out on facebook today for delay and quality issues. Haven't found a anything else on the market so I'm going for custom....again

Can vouch for the quality of the Hayward manifolds but not the fit for the 8V.

lol vendors slinging mud, sounds about right for facebook groups. If Broadfoot is calling SFR out does that mean Broadfoot is currently offering readily available superior products?? Considering you're going custom I assume not?

[Bergerac]

lol vendors slinging mud, sounds about right for facebook groups. If Broadfoot is calling SFR out does that mean Broadfoot is currently offering readily available superior products?? Considering you're going custom I assume not?

No one is offering quality products, we all know that. It seems like standard practice for vendors in the US to slag each other off in public. I'm going custom because my car is RHD.