Poll: Are you ICE or EV?

[Dave W.]

I think the indication by politicians that EV's are the wave of the future is a nod to the industry that they should begin the next production cycle with EV's in mind, and to not put their development budget into ICE anymore. It's difficult to look into the future by ten years, so there's plenty of time to adjust our expectations as the years go by.

One of the big hurdles to EV acceptance is the used-car market. A large portion of used cars are purchased by people who rent and live in apartments. These people have no way to charge an electric car, so they're not buying EV. Just look at how many people park on the street in downtown and crowded urban areas. Anyone who buys a new EV needs to ask themselves what will happen after 4 to 6 years of ownership? How much will a cheap EV be worth when there's no buyers? OTOH a premium EV will retain its value better since it will most likely be purchased by someone who owns a home with a garage.

Transit buses are currently leading the way in industrial hybrid, fuel cell and battery electric industrial vehicles. Since they're partially funded by government, they can take a leadership role and push for new development. There are a few interesting studies on this page: https://www.actransit.org/zeb

One of the benefits of the push into EV tech is the proliferation of smaller battery powered mobility devices such as electric skateboards, scooters, electric bikes and other cheap transportation that younger buyers can afford. They're great for short trips and can be recharged inside the home. This is a great first-step into the EV future. Perhaps the younger generation will never see the need for an ICE vehicle if all of their transportation needs can be met with some form of EV?

[911R]

I started the thread to get other opinions on a message board. That's all. I think all replies were appropriate to the conversation.

... I'm no expert, just a simple guy loving my Porsche and the driving experience it affords me........

I welcome orderly and polite discussion on this subject. Maybe Tom should move it to another separate topic.

Bill,
I agree that I am also just a Porsche guy. I like owning, driving, and posting about my hobby.

I'd sure support our members to start other thread topics. We like more topics, and they don't cost anything. It is very important to have many options in many threads.

[Tom]

All seems good to me and in keeping with the spirit of the topic. If you want to see real topic-drift, check out any thread on Next Door. Someone posted their the other day about our local Starbucks closing, and said it was 'so sad," which prompted some to say it was unworthy of sadness because.... After 48 hours and 100+ posts, the topic had morphed into when nuclear weapons might be justified.

But yes, more threads are good. Start one today.

And another thing... if anything I'd move this out of the 'news' forum, since it's more of a discussion topic and not so much a news story, but hey, we're a wild and crazy young forum, so not a slave to formalities.

As for the topic of the thread, there's nothing like the sound and smell of gas engine. They'll be extinct someday I'm sure, but I'm guessing their remaining life and mine are about the same.

[iguana]

More or less indifferent to the method of propulsion. I want a fast car that also handles well. And can make it 500 km through a blizzard in the Rockies without stopping.

Right now, EVs aren't there yet. Fast? Yes. Handling? A Taycan is the best for that on the market, but it isn't in the same league as a 911 - too heavy. Range? Not yet.

Those are R&D problems that will be solved, though. I'm looking forward to that, but it'll be another decade, maybe. Battery technology will need to improve by a large factor to bring the energy density to the point where weight can be reduced by 25% and range doubled. That will happen, eventually.

That being said, we are in the golden age of the ICE and I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

[ROB III]

ICE sound (I-4, flat 4, flat six, I-6, V-6, V-8, V-10, V-12, V-16, W-16, radials [ever hear a Pratt Whitney R 4360 come to life?], all are music) M/T tactile feedback and mechanical satisfaction when selecting a gear properly, double clutching, some light hydrocarbon odor (walk into a garage that just had an older car driven into for what I mean), the look under the hood, these are all things that I enjoy so I'm kind of ICE analog in an increasingly electronic digital world, so ICE by choice for driving pleasure and satisfaction please! But short trips to the store, stop and go in heavy heavy traffic and residential scene, regeneration on decel, no pump lines just plug in at night convenience, basic mindless transportation....I can see some benefit to EV. Are you driving or just getting somewhere? My next door neighbor has an Audi E Tron and it sounds pretty interesting at low speeds in the neighborhood.
Charging infrastructure, electric generation and grid capability/capacity, battery material availability and technology, current mining and environmental impact (not good), toxicity of spent batteries, how to recycle as well as replacement costs...there are a lot of issues/challenges that need to be addressed. ICE has had exponentially more R&D than EV, and what of third world transportation needs and cost....EV for the masses has a way to go but the concept has merit as well as big challenges. Think of the first cell phones vs what you likely have in your pocket right now....
But I'm also more of a single malt scotch person...
My apologies for the above dissertation....

[911R]

Rob,
My main pleasure with a flat-six is the sound (never owned the others). It's something special and additive. I don't want to go thru withdrawal.

I have owned a 2.2L, a 2.4L, a 2.7L (modified 2.4L), a 1982 911SC, a 1992 964, and a 1996 993 (All Luftgekühlt or air-cooled).

I have owned a 997.1, a 991.1, and my current 992.1 (and another ordered). Water-cooled.

They all had the great sound. I've had no mufflers and small mufflers on the early small bumper long wheelbase early cars (1969-1973). The newer cars have the sport exhaust. All of these cars, in the last 58 years, have a special sound as the engine converts energy into mechanical magic. No other manufacturer has won more professional races.

I say not even Porsche can build a big heavy battery sports car that can match the current and past cars. $150,000 for a battery sports car? It's not going to happen for me.
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I also don't like the government telling me what to do or what I need to buy. [/rant over]





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[Bill in Bama]

Fresh perspective: A representative from TVA spoke at my Rotary club last week on myths and tips for EV's. He gas owned an EV personally for 10 years so he wasn't going to neglect the advantages of Ev ownership. When all was said and done no one in the room was convinced electric was the way to go right now. He was very objective and naturally TVA is all in on EV's as it will be a tremendous revenue stream for them. I learned a few things and had a lot of my opinions confirmed.

[HugoGT3]

The aural pleasure I get driving an ICE with a MT, especially a flat 6 with the sport exhaust blasting away, just can't be replaced by an EV. Even if the EV is quicker off the line, all the mechanical noises, the vibration, the smell and intake sounds that the ICE has on tap adds to the overall thrill of the sports car experience. An EV does have a place in the world of transportation, but the feeling you get operating and interacting with the powerband of an ICE is in a league of its own.

[blueline]

The aural pleasure I get driving an ICE with a MT, especially a flat 6 with the sport exhaust blasting away, just can't be replaced by an EV. Even if the EV is quicker off the line, all the mechanical noises, the vibration, the smell and intake sounds that the ICE has on tap adds to the overall thrill of the sports car experience. An EV does have a place in the world of transportation, but the feeling you get operating and interacting with the powerband of an ICE is in a league of its own.

Agree completely.

PS - Welcome to Carpokes! Feel free to post something about you and/or your cars (pics always welcome too) at the New Member Check-In if so inclined.

viewtopic.php?t=48

[blueline]

Fresh perspective: A representative from TVA spoke at my Rotary club last week on myths and tips for EV's. He gas owned an EV personally for 10 years so he wasn't going to neglect the advantages of Ev ownership. When all was said and done no one in the room was convinced electric was the way to go right now. He was very objective and naturally TVA is all in on EV's as it will be a tremendous revenue stream for them. I learned a few things and had a lot of my opinions confirmed.

I'm in TVA-land too and considering the rolling blackouts this past Friday & Saturday due to demand exceeding insufficient capacity, I'd say the utes have a ways to go before they're ready to add large numbers of EV's to the load.

Speaking of TVA, there was a time when TN and the Midsouth were the envy of the country (electrically speaking) with our relatively inexpensive and abundant generation capacity. That's no longer the case it seems. It's one thing if wind storms, tornadoes, ice storms, and the like take out transmission lines or substations, but quite another when blackouts occur due to insufficient electricity to power and heat homes, businesses, etc. because of a temporary demand spike. That indicates to me that we are now so close to using everything that the TVA can generate that there's no room for error or for unplanned excess demand.

Oh well, maybe Porsche's pilot synfuel project in Chile succeeds. I'm pulling for them. Keep ICEs!