951 Brake Upgrade

[Latitude48]

I'm inclined to go with something tried and true, like the Big Red kit paragon sells...

https://www.paragon-products.com/Big-Br ... 4bbk_2.htm

Need to update the offset too though, so it goes on the list for now....

The Paragon kit must use the Dansk "big reds" since the price is too cheap at $1914 to include genuine Porsche calipers and rotors, plus pads and adapters. FYI, the "big blacks" are about $773 each and the 911 C2 3.6 rotors are $220 each.

BTW, when I originally installed the big blacks on my S2 I used adapters. Later I was able to pick up a set of M030 spindles and hubs (you need both), and that "looked better" to me as that setup moved the rotor 'out' (away) from the tie rod end compared to the setup using adapters. I was concerned about heat in the rotors during track days affected the tie rod rubber boots. I never had a problem, but I just felt this was better. I think I have some old pictures of this.

[Tom]

I'm inclined to go with something tried and true, like the Big Red kit paragon sells...

https://www.paragon-products.com/Big-Br ... 4bbk_2.htm

Need to update the offset too though, so it goes on the list for now....

The Paragon kit must use the Dansk "big reds" since the price is too cheap at $1914 to include genuine Porsche calipers and rotors, plus pads and adapters. FYI, the "big blacks" are about $773 each and the 911 C2 3.6 rotors are $220 each.

BTW, when I originally installed the big blacks on my S2 I used adapters. Later I was able to pick up a set of M030 spindles and hubs (you need both), and that "looked better" to me as that setup moved the rotor 'out' (away) from the tie rod end compared to the setup using adapters. I was concerned about heat in the rotors during track days affected the tie rod rubber boots. I never had a problem, but I just felt this was better. I think I have some old pictures of this.

Is Dansk not the real 'Big Red' caliper? Did Dansk make calipers that say Porsche on them like the picture in the Paragon ad? The description also says "the famous Big Red" calipers. I may call him next week and get the skinny, though I need spindles and such to go with it...

[Latitude48]

Is Dansk not the real 'Big Red' caliper? Did Dansk make calipers that say Porsche on them like the picture in the Paragon ad? The description also says "the famous Big Red" calipers. I may call him next week and get the skinny, though I need spindles and such to go with it...

Nope... the originals are made by Brembo. My new big blacks have that cast into the rear side. New price from Porsche for the big reds are ~ $856 each. You are really better off buying the parts yourself if you want genuine Porsche, you don't need a kit, just buy everything except the adapters from Porsche. FWIW Lindsey Racing sells the big reds for $1200 each.

If the Paragon kit includes genuine Porsche calipers and rotors that price is a steal. If they don't... Jason might want to remove the image with PORSCHE on the caliper.

One minor thing to consider, if you get real big reds you will need to switch out the side-to-side transfer tube fittings as the 911 runs the calipers on the leading side and the 928 and 944 run them on the trailing side of the rotor. Not a big deal but the paint will most likely flake off the tube fittings when you switch them.

[Tom]

Is Dansk not the real 'Big Red' caliper? Did Dansk make calipers that say Porsche on them like the picture in the Paragon ad? The description also says "the famous Big Red" calipers. I may call him next week and get the skinny, though I need spindles and such to go with it...

Nope... the originals are made by Brembo. My new big blacks have that cast into the rear side. New price from Porsche for the big reds are ~ $856 each. You are really better off buying the parts yourself if you want genuine Porsche, you don't need a kit, just buy everything except the adapters from Porsche. FWIW Lindsey Racing sells the big reds for $1200 each.

If the Paragon kit includes genuine Porsche calipers and rotors that price is a steal. If they don't... Jason might want to remove the image with PORSCHE on the caliper.

One minor thing to consider, if you get real big reds you will need to switch out the side-to-side transfer tube fittings as the 911 runs the calipers on the leading side and the 928 and 944 run them on the trailing side of the rotor. Not a big deal but the paint will most likely flake off the tube fittings when you switch them.

Good info, I'll call Jason on that, thanks. Any sense of how the Big Reds compare to the 944 Turbo S calipers? Going with the Turbo S brakes would allow for all factory parts, used as intended....

[Thom]

I went with the Big Reds from Dansk which I have had refinished in black with the correct Porsche stickers. As far as I have osberved they perform just the same as the original Big Reds/Blacks, and far better than the original 928 S4/951S calipers. Braking power is just stupid, even with the standard pads.

[Latitude48]

I went with the Big Reds from Dansk which I have had refinished in black with the correct Porsche stickers. As far as I have osberved they perform just the same as the original Big Reds/Blacks, and far better than the original 928 S4/951S calipers. Braking power is just stupid, even with the standard pads.

Thom, did you install the 5/33 brake bias valve, 928 355 305 02 when you switched to the big reds? I have one in my S2 and bought another for the 951 last May for use when I install the big blacks... man, prices sure have changed on that little valve: 1999 price was $55 and now it's $240.

And for Tom... when you say that "Going with the Turbo S brakes would allow for all factory parts, used as intended...." that only applies if you have M030 spindles, otherwise you'll need adapters since the Turbo S calipers install exactly like the big black or big reds. And if you are thinking of buying them new they are even more expensive at ~ $924 each, and the rotors appear to be "unobtanium" as they are showing discontinued by Porsche. Hmmm, guess that's an even better reason to upgrade the 951S type brakes on the 951. And don't even think about using the "drilled" 968 M030 version unless you want to pay more than $360 each... but they are available.

[Tom]

And for Tom... when you say that "Going with the Turbo S brakes would allow for all factory parts, used as intended...." that only applies if you have M030 spindles, otherwise you'll need adapters since the Turbo S calipers install exactly like the big black or big reds. And if you are thinking of buying them new they are even more expensive at ~ $924 each, and the rotors appear to be "unobtanium" as they are showing discontinued by Porsche. Hmmm, guess that's an even better reason to upgrade the 951S type brakes on the 951. And don't even think about using the "drilled" 968 M030 version unless you want to pay more than $360 each... but they are available.

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[chris white]

the Dansk stuff is good enough for street use - but for heavy track use I would still go for the 'real' calipers. life is very abusive on the track!

[Tom]

the Dansk stuff is good enough for street use - but for heavy track use I would still go for the 'real' calipers. life is very abusive on the track!

Do the Dansk's fail or just not stop as well, or??

[chris white]

the Dansk stuff is good enough for street use - but for heavy track use I would still go for the 'real' calipers. life is very abusive on the track!

Do the Dansk's fail or just not stop as well, or??

They work the same…but can you beat the snot out of them for a season? Unknown. The big reds need new dust seals every now and then - temps well over 1000f can take their toll! Good porsche/Brembo brakes are really impressive at their consistently under heavy use