Carpokes Porsche Forum

As a continuation to some of the other less than pleasant auto manufacturer reports, the following is being reported today by Motor1.com. If true, it's dire. The article suggests Nissan may sell a majority stake to Honda.

https://www.motor1.com/news/742467/niss ... o-survive/

A few lines says it all:

Things aren't looking good at Nissan. Dealers are selling cars at a loss, production has slowed, and more recently, the company cut thousands of jobs and sold a third of its stake in Mitsubishi. But it all may have been too little too late.

"A new report suggests that the automaker's days are numbered. In an interview with the Financial Times, two unnamed Nissan executives said the company has "12 to 14 months to survive." "This is going to be tough. And in the end, we need Japan and the US to be generating cash," they said.

Nissan's North American headquarters is here in Nashville. Nissan sponsors the TN Titans and a LOT of other businesses and charities. Plus, there is the huge Nissan assembly & manufacturing facility here. Thousands of employees here, including a lot of execs. Unfortunately, Nissan has been sliding off the cliff for a good number of years so it's not good situation. Hopefully all resolves somehow but I am starting to have my doubts.

Also this opinion on Nissan from The Daily Mail, dated Dec 1st:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rticle-top

As many have said, shakeouts, consolidations and out right failures in the auto manufacturing world are on the doorstep.

Not sure if this is related, but every time I've been in a modern Nissan recently, it feels like a noticeable step down in quality from other Japanese cars. I had an Altima as a rental a while ago, and it just seemed overly plastic inside. I remember thinking that America had caught up with at least some Japanese cars, as the Malibu I got the time before seemed better built. Not sure if bad cars created financial woes, or if financial woes created bad cars....

Tom wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:42 am Not sure if this is related, but every time I've been in a modern Nissan recently, it feels like a noticeable step down in quality from other Japanese cars. I had an Altima as a rental a while ago, and it just seemed overly plastic inside. I remember thinking that America had caught up with at least some Japanese cars, as the Malibu I got the time before seemed better built. Not sure if bad cars created financial woes, or if financial woes created bad cars....

Absolutely.

Nissan has had a huge decline in quality over the past several decades. I have a decent background in dealing with the ACV (actual cash value) of regular vehicles (not high-end supercar types) of all makes going back to the 80s and Nissan has always been in the bottom tier. I hate to say this (it's undeservedly harsh and, obviously, hyperbole), but Nissans have become Yugo-like.

viewtopic.php?t=1697#p17693

I feel like Nissan started its big downhill slide when they ill-advisedly changed the name from Datsun. The Datsun cars and trucks we saw here in North America in the late 60s and 70s were well-made, dependable and cleanly styled. They, along with others such as Honda put American iron of the time to great shame.

Aston Martin's latest prognosis is not very cheery. I wonder how or if this will impact their F1 efforts? How long does Lawrence Stroll remain in charge as Aston's Executive Chairman?

SSO Report: "Aston Martin: Another Profit Warning and Another Cash Raise"

https://ssoreport.com/aml-raise-2024

Executive Chairman Stroll's rather famous quote from February 2022 when he stated: "Let me be crystal-clear, black-and-white: we do not need money." Since then, AML has raised about £970 million in equity. (That's in excess of $1.2 billion dollars.)

The Nissan-Honda rumors are closer to becoming a reality per the WSJ. My guess is that this will happen soon.

"Honda and Nissan Say They Are Exploring Merger"
"Possible combination comes after struggles for both automakers in China and a downturn for Nissan in the U.S."

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hond ... _permalink

That article made me wonder -- who would Porsche merge with, if it came to that? Doesn't VW own big stakes in all the German brands other than Mercedes?

Didn't Porsche just go through a formal IPO effort to raise more of their own cash? They have been the most profitable car company at least in the last ten years or so. I don't track their sales but I would expect that their largest recent market in China is shrinking for a couple reasons. While VW has been a large shareholder, I'm not sure how VW's own problems would drag too hard on Porsche's bottom line. Perhaps Porsche's failed reverse-takeover attempt has turned into a blessing with the swing in VW's fortunes.

Tom wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:16 am That article made me wonder -- who would Porsche merge with, if it came to that? Doesn't VW own big stakes in all the German brands other than Mercedes?

The convoluted, Gordian knot, German-type corporate structure!

Basically (assuming I have it more or less correct), Porsche SE is the big daddy umbrella entity that owns owns VW Group who in turn owns all of the sub brands - VW, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Audi, Škoda, SEAT, MAN and other brands. They're all already tied together in a complex fashion.

To add to that, a German state owns a large chuck of one of the above - Porsche SE, I think, so they have a huge say in what transpires. Then there's the big union which also has ownership I believe.

Who would that mess of a conglomeration merge with and how? I guess they could re-merge with themselves in a different arrangement - a bit of incestual changing of family members. Lol!

Ok, not lol.

dr bob wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:29 am Didn't Porsche just go through a formal IPO effort to raise more of their own cash? They have been the most profitable car company at least in the last ten years or so. I don't track their sales but I would expect that their largest recent market in China is shrinking for a couple reasons. While VW has been a large shareholder, I'm not sure how VW's own problems would drag too hard on Porsche's bottom line. Perhaps Porsche's failed reverse-takeover attempt has turned into a blessing with the swing in VW's fortunes.

That was Porsche SE, the daddy umbrella entity. The IPO was back in 2022.

Here's one article on the event:
https://www.cityindex.com/en-uk/news-an ... rsche-ipo/

̶I̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶P̶o̶r̶s̶c̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶I̶P̶O̶.̶ (Correction. I think. Not sure as there are too many AGs, SEs and Groups in the entity!)

Here was my summary (right or wrong) posted here when they went public. Gordian knot for sure.

As best I can piece it together from news stories (always suspect) the company that went public is Porsche AG, which is owned 12.5% (plus 1 share) by Porsche SE, 12.5% by the 'public' via the IPO, and 75% (minus 1 share) by VW. What I read is that investors were shifting away from Porsche SE, causing its price to drop (reflected in the price quotes you shown above), and moving over to Porsche AG. As I understand it, Porsche AG went out at the high end of its range and traded up slightly on its first day. Investors are shifting away from Porsche SE (driving down its price) because it has large ownership interest in VW (~31%), along with its 12.5% interest in Porsche AG, and investors who are high on Porsche see Porsche AG as more of a pure Porsche play (unencumbered by VW's results).