Carpokes Porsche Forum

What is the recommended way to learn how to properly drive a classic 911? I mean, I know how to drive a car - but with some of the dynamics of these cars, one can get in trouble... I almost did this last weekend... took 'er out on the twistys, came into sharp downhill left hander a bit too hot... I *think* if I had more experience I might have been able to drift my way through the corner, but I panic'd, let off the throttle, applied probably too much brake pedal... went skidding straight and ended up mere inches from dropping the front wheels into a ditch and potentially smashing the front end into a rock wall....

Would love to be able to practice things like this without the fear of running off a cliff or hitting another car...

I suppose I could take it out to the Autocross... other suggestions on improving driving skill?

ccallana wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:45 pm What is the recommended way to learn how to properly drive a classic 911? I mean, I know how to drive a car - but with some of the dynamics of these cars, one can get in trouble... I almost did this last weekend... took 'er out on the twistys, came into sharp downhill left hander a bit too hot... I *think* if I had more experience I might have been able to drift my way through the corner, but I panic'd, let off the throttle, applied probably too much brake pedal... went skidding straight and ended up mere inches from dropping the front wheels into a ditch and potentially smashing the front end into a rock wall....

Would love to be able to practice things like this without the fear of running off a cliff or hitting another car...

I suppose I could take it out to the Autocross... other suggestions on improving driving skill?

You will want to explore the limits of your car (Heavy braking, braking with lock on, corner entry, middle, exit, low/high speed cornering characteristics, etc). The only way to responsibly do this is at a track, or find your self a HUGE and VACANT parking lot and set up practice corners with some cones (last resort)

But, I would suggest finding a track and start exploring the characteristics of your car. You will find out pretty quick, and it's so rewarding! You don't have to go absolutely mental at the track, but you can push certain corners a little more and more before you start to understand how it limits.

Some tracks have lessons for various styles of driving/racing.

After that, you will have a much more enjoyable time up in the twisty roads without fear of running off a cliff ha.

Weight shift. That's the main or initial dynamic that set off your near miss. Learning about weight shift from braking/accelerating is crucial, among other things such as elevation changes, road camber, road composition, etc. Figuring out the dynamics of an older 911 takes time and practice but weight shift applies to every car that's being driven hard in curves, so that is a good place to start. Do that and you'll resolve a big part of the conundrum.

Letting off the throttle suddenly when you realized you were entering the corner too hot was the downfall as that shifted the weight to the front, lightening and loosening the rear end while adding a lot of weight to the front. Oversteer was the result - I am pretty sure you had the wheels already turned going into the curve and the light back end was free to do its thing - snap around.

Once you're into a turn too hot and suddenly lift, you're mostly screwed. Either stay on the throttle somewhat so that the weight doesn't shift forward as much and hope you can make it through the turn unscathed or put both feet in fully - brake and clutch - and hope you can get stopped in time. Maybe, maybe not. If you panic and come completely off the accelerator, be sure to put both feet in - hard.

When you're learning curves/road courses/auto crosses and are new to that kind of experience, remember to brake only while front wheels are straight. Braking while turning (trail braking) can come later after a lot of track hours and learning. Brake straight.

There is so much more to your question that is best solved with competitive driving. Yes, AX's are great. Instructed DE's are excellent too as long as you get a decent instructor who understands the dynamics - car control, weight shifting, foot speed, eyes way ahead, always either on throttle or on brake at varying degrees (no coasting!), smooth inputs, etc.

It's fun. And addictive, especially if you take your time and allow for a bit of learning.

Glad no damage because what you described often ends unfavorably.

blueline wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:26 pm
Glad no damage because what you described often ends unfavorably.

*you're* glad not as glad as me first time I'd actually lost it - I've come close a few times, but nothing like this -

I get the theory behind the driving dynamics - but in practice, it comes awful fast need to train my brain more...

in the meantime, will have to back off the "spirited" driving just a hair - enjoy things a few clicks off of the edge instead of right on it... Thanks for sharing the info!

PCA track day with an instructor that knows older 911's.

Stormy_Monday wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:20 pm PCA track day with an instructor that knows older 911's.

Big second on this. PCA driver's ed events are made for exactly this, and are hard to match outside a paid racing school. The other thing I'd suggest is reading up a bit. I was able to partially participate in Bob Bondurant's old driving school at Laguna Seca -- sat through all the training, but had very limited seat time since I was there as a tag-along with a college kid's budget (i.e. no budget). Before doing that, I bought and read (over and over) "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving" and I do think it helps to have the basics spelled out in black and white. A little book learn'n helps you 'get' what the instructor is telling you, at least it did for me. Of course, most Uber drivers can lap me on a track, so take my input on racing with a tiny little grain of salt.

PCA has excellent instructors and emphasizes that aspect rigorously. I love 'em! But I will also add that events catering to new drivers from many of the other track day organizers also offer top notch instruction, with several stepping up the pace.

I've added a new Google Docs spreadsheet with names and web addresses for organizers, tracks and registration sites to my track schedule topic here: https://www.carpokes.com/viewtopic.php?t=2815#p36244

I realize that this only covers parts of our half of the the US but it gives an idea of how much is out there regarding track days. Maybe someone on the West side of the country could compile a similar sheet for those of you out there!