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Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:10 pm
by NCGermerican
Hey folks! Anyone ever check the viability of polycarbonate fog light lenses for the 951/S2? They're available for the NA 944's. I have a brand new (and very expensive) set of fog lights and housings I bought awhile ago but quite frankly......I'm scared to put them on the car.
I'm getting a full respray in the fall and am waiting to install the new fogs until that time and will get them PPF'd along with the front of the car. However, I'm still a little shocked that there aren't any less expensive polycarbonate versions available that would withstand a rock better than the factory ones?
I did ask Kyle at only944 and he said his supplier said it's a hard no.
Has this been discussed before and I'm just late to the party?
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:02 pm
by stitch2k1
There's a few places that sell covers that will be a rock guard
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:28 am
by NCGermerican
stitch2k1 wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:02 pm
There's a few places that sell covers that will be a rock guard
I've seen some vinyl style covers but I can't imagine they would stop a crack like a polycarbonate lens would.
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:54 pm
by Latitude48
I have two sets of what appear to be polycarbonate lens covers for the fog/driving light combo on the 944 S2 or 951. I purchased them 23 years ago from Performance Products, along with the Bosch Euro Driving/Fog Lights. All never installed. It's a familiar story... "When I get the car repainted, I'll install these."
I can dig them out and post a picture. They may even have a tag indicating who made them as my Excel spreadsheet doesn't include that info.
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:12 am
by NCGermerican
Latitude48 wrote: Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:54 pm
"When I get the car repainted, I'll install these."
I had to laugh when I read this. My car is scheduled for a full respray later this year. I've been holding onto a brand new set of fog light assemblies from Porsche because "I don't want my new fog lights to get cracked before the car is painted". I just put some Lamin-X film over them and will probably install this week because I'm tired of looking at cracked lenses.
I would definitely like to see a picture of the lenses you purchased long ago!
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:53 am
by Tom
Is this about the clear lights (under the amber) in this picture? Pelican still seems to list them for sale, albeit with a hefty price tag. Or is the issue that folks want them in polycarbonate so they are less likely to break? Maybe that's some Carpokes should partner up with
@Rennbay to make...
- 951-fog-light.jpg (365.47 KiB) Viewed 2737 times
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:24 am
by NCGermerican
Tom wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:53 am
Is this about the clear lights (under the amber) in this picture? Pelican still seems to list them for sale, albeit with a hefty price tag. Or is the issue that folks want them in polycarbonate so they are less likely to break? Maybe that's some Carpokes should partner up with @Rennbay to make...
951-fog-light.jpg
Yes Tom - it's a little bit of both! Brand new lenses are still available and come with the entire housing assembly from Porsche. I ordered them from an online dealer and they had to get them from Germany which took over a month. I believe I paid around $300 for each side and this was a few years ago.
That is extremely expensive given one well placed stone on the highway can crack or shatter the lens. I reached out to only944.com previously and he stated his vendors weren't interested in reproduction polycarb or plastic replacements, due to the cost of the molds. Carpokes to the rescue?
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:13 pm
by dr bob
For similar fog lamps on my 928, I found a set of 3M thick protectors soon after I bought the car late 1990's. Peel-n-stick to the glass lenses. The source for those dried up a couple decades ago, but certainly a good option to save the lenses from sand- and rock-blasting damage. In sure the actual material is available somewhere, just need a good way to cut them.
Since installing those, I have one cracked lens from thermal stress. Advice is to use good LED bulbs instead of 100W halogens as I did. Like the 944 lamps, finding new 928 fogs is more than a bit spendy. One of the popular 928 parts specialists does have polycarbonate 928 lenses available.
Like everything else, it takes a decent initial purchase commitment to get production tooling set up. The Good News for molding for lenses is that there are a lot of DIY options including silicone molds made in simple wood boxes. The resins are readily available. The actual casting demands vacuum degassing of the resin and for the silicone mold. Takes some practice but not insurmountable. A decent AC vacuum pump is more than sufficient.
A good silicone mold itself demands a good original piece of glass, and of course the lefts and rights are mirror not duplicates, at least for the 928 fogs. The original 928 Hella glass lenses are glued to the housings with common vinyl strip adhesive, and need some heat to soften enough to lift the glass off for the mold making.
Bottom line is that making a set of polycarbonate lenses isn't out of reach.
Separately I've been brain-beating on the idea of using a pair of projectors in the 928 housings, a duty that would demand a clear (no fluting) lens cover. The are retrofit 2.5" projectors with shutters for H1S bulbs, and they are pretty darn cheap at under $30 each. Still need to fit the bulbs and ballasts, although LEDs might be an option in them. It would almost undoubtedly need a printed housing to hold all the bits inside, but not impossible.
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:57 pm
by NCGermerican
dr bob wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:13 pm
For similar fog lamps on my 928, I found a set of 3M thick protectors soon after I bought the car late 1990's. Peel-n-stick to the glass lenses. The source for those dried up a couple decades ago, but certainly a good option to save the lenses from sand- and rock-blasting damage. In sure the actual material is available somewhere, just need a good way to cut them.
Since installing those, I have one cracked lens from thermal stress. Advice is to use good LED bulbs instead of 100W halogens as I did. Like the 944 lamps, finding new 928 fogs is more than a bit spendy. One of the popular 928 parts specialists does have polycarbonate 928 lenses available.
Like everything else, it takes a decent initial purchase commitment to get production tooling set up. The Good News for molding for lenses is that there are a lot of DIY options including silicone molds made in simple wood boxes. The resins are readily available. The actual casting demands vacuum degassing of the resin and for the silicone mold. Takes some practice but not insurmountable. A decent AC vacuum pump is more than sufficient.
A good silicone mold itself demands a good original piece of glass, and of course the lefts and rights are mirror not duplicates, at least for the 928 fogs. The original 928 Hella glass lenses are glued to the housings with common vinyl strip adhesive, and need some heat to soften enough to lift the glass off for the mold making.
Bottom line is that making a set of polycarbonate lenses isn't out of reach.
Separately I've been brain-beating on the idea of using a pair of projectors in the 928 housings, a duty that would demand a clear (no fluting) lens cover. The are retrofit 2.5" projectors with shutters for H1S bulbs, and they are pretty darn cheap at under $30 each. Still need to fit the bulbs and ballasts, although LEDs might be an option in them. It would almost undoubtedly need a printed housing to hold all the bits inside, but not impossible.
The 951/S2 glass is also bonded to the housings, which no doubt is a reason for the outlandish cost of replacement. As for the 951/S2, given that there were different versions for the US and ROW (ROW had daytime running lights and sets are commanding $1K in the US!) would add to the challenge of having a significant enough volume to justify the setup cost.
Lamin-X does provide a peel and stick option for the 951/S2 and the kit covers both the fog light and the front turn signal lenses. I have already applied this on my new (and still uninstalled) fog lights.
My 951 has 165K miles so it will never be a low mileage, bone stock example to keep the value high. My goal is to have the car look "fairly" stock while giving it a modernization in both looks and functionality. Therefore, I would be very open to an option for some projector style fogs with a non-fluted lens. Quite frankly, it might look just plain awesome and provide more light coverage than the stock ones.
Re: Why no polycarbonate fog lenses?
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:36 pm
by Latitude48
Here's a picture of the fog/driving light covers. Surprisingly, they are still available direct from the manufacturer in New Zealand. In US dollars the price is a bit over $71/pair, which is pretty cheap to protect expensive lights. These are UV stabilized Acrylic. Here's the link:
https://www.airplex.co.nz/product/1549- ... clear-pair