Carpokes Porsche Forum

I currently have all ICE vehicles, but having been in the Automotive Business for over 3 Decades I do love innovation. We, as carbon based life forms, do not like change, yet we often fail to look rationally at history, and it was only 40-50 years ago where one could not breathe in LA, and the advent of catalytic converters was upon us. History is repeating itself again, with the government mandating future changes, but I feel the outcome in the next two decades will be as exciting as the forced innovation was that started back in the last Century to clean up the air and get rid of lead in the fuel. Part of my interest is a realization that our infrastructure moved slowly back then and it still does, so there will be many years ahead for ICE, but with that the likelihood that the Automotive Manufacturers will find even more advancement to make combustion engines run cleaner and technology will enhance all levels of propulsion in the works ( hybrids, hydrogen, EV and ICE ).

I was there with all the others in the 1970s screaming about losing lead in my " Premium Fuel ", and hating the stink of catalytic converters, but progress came and we are still in a " Muscle Car Era " that eclipses the old standards of the 60s and 70s not by years of horsepower wars, but by decades.

I can see a car in my future with solar panels, hybrid EV power ( GM and others are also working on a new breed of battery ) , an ICE engine and being able to drive 500-700 miles between fill ups. All of us tend to resist change because we all get into our comfort zones, but often if we pause and consider where we were in the past and how things have changed , we may see an exciting automotive World with many types of propulsion, because in the end we are the customer and if we want it they will build it.

Don't misunderstand, I'm fine with automotive progress, modern performance cars get phenomenal gas mileage while producing lots of power with minimal emissions. But computers made all this possible. Let the market determine what is available and what goes away, not some government bureaucracy.

Stormy_Monday wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:28 am it's good to have choices

I think that the key word here (choice). For the life of me cannot understand why the hybrid isn’t the technology being pushed… there is free energy to be used here. I think (some, not all) EV owners forget the charging connection is still burning oil to get them around. I’m all for new technology but as others have stated it’s being forced. In my instance I could live with an EV just fine for a daily, but that doesn’t mean I want too..

Last night I filled up at the local BP. (93) was 4.19/per which according to some that’s really cheap right now.. few years ago I was reading something about the price of gas and in the last 30yrs it’s probably had the least amount of inflation over anything he could think of… food for thought.. he compared it to a case of water at 5.00/24.

I don't think any of us like the Government Bureaucracy, yet we have had it every single decade since I have been on this Green Globe and in reality we probably would not make any changes to a degree if not forced. I was super lucky to be great friends with some Performance Engineers at Stellantis and Ford and what I found very interesting was quite a few of them instead of complaining about changing standards ( from safety to emissions, to new innovations ) they welcomed them. In fact change was what made their working lives exciting and so many challenges were met when the Industry said it could not be done. Like GT3twenty10 I am a bit amazed we do not find more Hybrids, yet I imagine this will be changing as many consumers find it more palatable. My son plugs in his Cayenne Hybrid and was getting 800-900 miles between fill ups as he can plug in at work. Sure that seems nuts, but I have little doubt this will be the norm in the next decade.

We do not like being forced to do things, and the ancient farts like myself on here probably remember the same screaming we all made for mandatory seat belts, then air bags, and even ABS. We may be a little bit more vocal with changes in ICE, but I believe it will pass because with hindsight we really have to admit some things are done for our own good. Of course , with age , some of us get grumpy or others choose to get mellow, and I will take the second choice because I logically know Infrastructure moves slower than the projected timelines. Heck, I was so frustrated when Dodge's timeline said the Challenger's last year would be 2014, er, then it was 2016, er.............................dang here it is 2024 and they are finally retiring the beast ( or are they, ha ).

@porschewrench and @Stormy_Monday - the problem with EV's at this time is that, for most people, they are empty choices. Some say EV's are popular with virtue signallers, who also own affordable real cars that can get them to distant destinations without concern. That point is made because EV's are only appropriate for limited, very regular roles, like back and forth to work, so families that need cars for weekend trips, visits to elderly relatives in other states, emergency shopping and so forth will not buy one. And even if they were practical, I wouldn't own one because I would not park it in my garage, for fear of flaring my connected home into ash. A recent study concluded that, all expenses included, an EV costs the equivalent of more than $17 per gallon to operate. And this does not include the risk of value reduction to zero in the event of a minor fender-bender, extremely lengthy recharge cycles, a valueless car at the end of battery life and on and on.

Eventually, EV's will be in everyone's drives, but NOT the current crop, and not until the electrical grid about doubles in capacity. Dealers are dying under the weight of 3 or more months supply of unsold new EV's, and used ones sell for crap, all because consumers can differentiate between a bad deal and a good one..

I’m not sure everyone will have to get an EV as I don’t think it’s going to stick 100%. I am tired YouTubers posting their theories on various manufacturers on the EV death row etc..
I’m kinda dig’n that new hybrid turbo4 Tacoma/Land Cruiser … I bet they’re not free. I’m all
for new technology but don’t force it or not give us a choice

I agree, I don't think "everyone " will be driving EV's in 5-10 or even 20 years. Yes, China has reduced the price so the masses can afford them, but at what vost? We don't know how much the government has subsidized them, but I bet a lot, and they won't meet US safety regs anyway.

A huge portion of the driving public buys used, and who among us is willing to buy a well-used EV? That isn't going to change soon, if ever, and I believe for the foreseeable future ICE vehicles will have a portion of the car sales.

My statement was an EV in every drive, not that every car would be an EV. About 40% of all homes are stocked with multiple cars.

I agree that IC cars will dominate for the foreseeable future. They constitute the only logical, proven choice in this market full of maybe technologies.

I think, however, in the distant future, when fusion power makes electricity incredibly cheap, and after we have extracted our petroleum for another 50 or more years, electricity will be a more affordable fuel than gas, and with the vast improvements that time will bring to technology, electric cars will be able to travel huge distances, tow trailers, charge quickly, enjoy forever batteries, and never never again spontaneously replicate the core of a thermonuclear explosion in anyone's garage. There will always be alternate means of propulsion, but I'm betting on the eventual ascendancy of electric cars, a situation which I hope to witness from a lofty perch in Heaven.

Nuclear power is the obvious choice for reliable, clean electricity, despite the disdain the greenies give to it, and once everyone comes to that agreement, then we will have inexhaustible energy.
But I recall the predictions when I was a kid of a flying car in every garage by the 1980"s (or '90's, or 2000's, etc.) and we see where that is. I too, will not be around to witness any of this, I just hope my children and grandchildren are not saddled with huge debts to pay for all the pie-in-the-sky schemes the politicians are already foisting on the populace.

They are already responsible for so many trillions of dollars, the next generation will not come close to paying it off. Right now, each Amercan - every citizen, plus every illegal, plus every baby, kid and teenager, owes nearly $100K in government debt. Excess spending has saddled us with a multi-generational problem, which we have not yet begun to fix - it is estimated that, at current rates of expenditure, federal government debt will increase by $5 billion EVERY DAY FOR THE NEXT DECADE.