+1 on the Vitesse Racing @Fast951 recommendation. His software is just dialed in like no other and let's you check the 'tuning' box without much effort.
Curious you don't list Carrillo rods. Not a fan?
I won't hi-jack this thread, but will follow-up in my other thread about the crank work you do. I used to 'have a guy' but he's all but disappeared...
2.8L N/A 318hp Build Recipe
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Tom
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michaelmount123
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Yes, Tom, I'm a fan of Carrillo and have used them in many builds. I didn't mention them because they're typically at the high end of the cost scale and there are others that are suitable and cost effective. All (repeat ALL) custom connecting rods should be checked dimensionally before they're installed in an engine. My experience has been that sometimes out of spec rods slip past and get shipped to the customer. Trust, but verify has been my rule.
Digested your wisdom and had a minute to reply finally, so keeping the format a bit here, from top to bottom.
First, strong point you make about the Alusil refinishing. I've heard claims, but they're not verified and hard to say how those engines fare over time. "Trust but verify" is something I use in my profession all the time, so I had a chuckle at that.
On the topic of Bores, coatings, and sleeving
First off, Millenium Technologies is Canadian which is great, as it saves me border nightmares. I'm on Vancouver Island.
Here's a question... if the bores are done am I being silly to not sleeve them or are my power goals modest enough that it's an un-necessary extra cost? Put another way, at what point do you look to Sleeve vs Coat? Is it based on a power goal, or the engine's wear, or both?
Ultimately the question here is about where it makes the most sense to spend, not a preference to have it unsleeved.
So I am curious for the group's thoughts, and yours... would there be value with this build in going the sleeve route or would it make more sense to spend elsewhere given the goals.
Good tip about 964 rings, hadn't heard that recommendation before. Just regular, OEM rings ? I'm curious for the benefit vs a set of dedicated 944 aftermarket race rings.
For the pistons I was leaning towards JE already. I will absolutely take you up on the offer to assist me with the specs. I'll wait until I've done the teardown, confirmed what is going to happen with the block, valvetrain and head, and then get your help.
For the Crank work;
Interesting about keeping the weights. I really had the idea of a very light free spinning engine in mind. Would you keep them given my goals?
Should I get Millennium to do the crank work too then, does anyone know if they will take that on?
For the rods
I can't for the life of me figure out what 'set your ROC' refers to. Rod offset?
I'm on the fence with the trap door too, so that pushes me toward 'don't bother'
For the head... I am absolutely interested in taking you up on that offer. I'll reach out in DM.
For the header - it was available quickly when I wanted to replace my cracking stocker years ago. I bought it knowing it wasn't a forever part, so no worries about that and I do like the look of the Racer's Edge offering a lot better.
I had heard that about the followers, to use the VW parts instead, that's a great trick.
It's sounding like I may have to start my own thread for this teardown and build, as there seems to be strong interest. I'll do so
First, strong point you make about the Alusil refinishing. I've heard claims, but they're not verified and hard to say how those engines fare over time. "Trust but verify" is something I use in my profession all the time, so I had a chuckle at that.
On the topic of Bores, coatings, and sleeving
First off, Millenium Technologies is Canadian which is great, as it saves me border nightmares. I'm on Vancouver Island.
Here's a question... if the bores are done am I being silly to not sleeve them or are my power goals modest enough that it's an un-necessary extra cost? Put another way, at what point do you look to Sleeve vs Coat? Is it based on a power goal, or the engine's wear, or both?
Ultimately the question here is about where it makes the most sense to spend, not a preference to have it unsleeved.
So I am curious for the group's thoughts, and yours... would there be value with this build in going the sleeve route or would it make more sense to spend elsewhere given the goals.
Good tip about 964 rings, hadn't heard that recommendation before. Just regular, OEM rings ? I'm curious for the benefit vs a set of dedicated 944 aftermarket race rings.
For the pistons I was leaning towards JE already. I will absolutely take you up on the offer to assist me with the specs. I'll wait until I've done the teardown, confirmed what is going to happen with the block, valvetrain and head, and then get your help.
For the Crank work;
Interesting about keeping the weights. I really had the idea of a very light free spinning engine in mind. Would you keep them given my goals?
Should I get Millennium to do the crank work too then, does anyone know if they will take that on?
For the rods
I can't for the life of me figure out what 'set your ROC' refers to. Rod offset?
I'm on the fence with the trap door too, so that pushes me toward 'don't bother'
For the head... I am absolutely interested in taking you up on that offer. I'll reach out in DM.
For the header - it was available quickly when I wanted to replace my cracking stocker years ago. I bought it knowing it wasn't a forever part, so no worries about that and I do like the look of the Racer's Edge offering a lot better.
I had heard that about the followers, to use the VW parts instead, that's a great trick.
It's sounding like I may have to start my own thread for this teardown and build, as there seems to be strong interest. I'll do so
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michaelmount123
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Remi,
In the end you want nice, round cylinders that will provide a good surface for ring seating, minimizing blow-by, and be durable. Millennium can do this and even offers (used to, anyway) +/-.0002" tolerance upon request. This can't be beat for a round cylinder. I've sleeved many 944 blocks successfully, primarily because it was all in house and I could control all aspects. Given the horror stories from others that have had failures with sleeving the 944, I definitely recommend Nikasil. A failure based on incorrect installation of sleeves is expensive and time consuming. Power is not an issue with this recommendation.
The 964 rings are durable and are designed for Nikasil, so they're a great solution. They also hold up well in boosted applications, so no worries here. They are only applicable for 100mm bores, so keep that in mind. I've always bought them from
I don't believe Millennium will do crank work, but it's worth asking them. Any reasonably good crankshaft shop can cross-drill, measure and polish your crank. Hopefully there's one close to you. The 944 crank is quite heavy, but the counterweights are close to the rotating axis, so lightening them has less impact on rotating mass than light rods, pistons, and clutch/FW.
I think starting a thread on your build will be very popular for Carpokes. I encourage you to do it. Lots of photos would be great too.
Oh, ROC is rod oil clearance.
MM
In the end you want nice, round cylinders that will provide a good surface for ring seating, minimizing blow-by, and be durable. Millennium can do this and even offers (used to, anyway) +/-.0002" tolerance upon request. This can't be beat for a round cylinder. I've sleeved many 944 blocks successfully, primarily because it was all in house and I could control all aspects. Given the horror stories from others that have had failures with sleeving the 944, I definitely recommend Nikasil. A failure based on incorrect installation of sleeves is expensive and time consuming. Power is not an issue with this recommendation.
The 964 rings are durable and are designed for Nikasil, so they're a great solution. They also hold up well in boosted applications, so no worries here. They are only applicable for 100mm bores, so keep that in mind. I've always bought them from
I don't believe Millennium will do crank work, but it's worth asking them. Any reasonably good crankshaft shop can cross-drill, measure and polish your crank. Hopefully there's one close to you. The 944 crank is quite heavy, but the counterweights are close to the rotating axis, so lightening them has less impact on rotating mass than light rods, pistons, and clutch/FW.
I think starting a thread on your build will be very popular for Carpokes. I encourage you to do it. Lots of photos would be great too.
Oh, ROC is rod oil clearance.
MM
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chris white
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All good stuff from MM ( as usual), try mile high crank shaft, they do great work.
What’s the cost range to have Millennium perform their Nikasil work on a good but tired block, including working on the bores: $1-2k, $2-4k, greater than $4k?
What are the key items to look out for when building the block back up after the Nikasil job? And how would you recommend re-installing the freeze plugs that were removed - Use threaded plugs?
What are the key items to look out for when building the block back up after the Nikasil job? And how would you recommend re-installing the freeze plugs that were removed - Use threaded plugs?
Boston-area, MA
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chris white
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I believe they are at $1400 plus shipping, you have to remove all the studs. Threaded plugs are a good idea anyway!
You will need to remove all ferrous metals. The front & rear oil galley plugs are readily available, but the one for the vertical feed to the cam tower is a mystery part number. There are locating dowels for the cylinder head, bellhousing, and pins for the balance shafts and front main bearings as well. Any carbon steel thread repair inserts will not survive either.
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michaelmount123
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Since I haven't worked with Millennium in many years, be sure to check with them for current pricing and what their services include. They used to offer stud removal during their Nikasil plating. This could be attractive for many since head and water pump stud removal is often difficult, even in the shop with special tools. I always remove the oil galley plugs before the plating, but it seems to me I never bothered removing bell housing dowels, bal shaft cover dowels or the roll pin for #1 main bearing without problems. I also left the vertical oil plug for the cylinder head in place, but check with Millennium about leaving some of these ferrous parts installed. They will also deck your block if requested. I used their decking service occasionally since there is a risk of carbide cutters chipping the Nikasil coating at the cylinder tops if I would deck them afterwards.
Use lots and lots of cardboard cushioning/protection when packing for shipment. Shippers will do their best to damage corners of the block when they are dropped off the conveyer or the back of the truck. They have no mercy and will be happy to demonstrate that.
When the block gets back it needs to be washed thoroughly. Clean the bores with detergent and water and a bore brush, then wash all oil passages with the proper long brushes, and all the threaded holes with your bench made thread cleaning tools (NOT taps). I use old studs and/or long bolts in each thread size with several longitudinal grooves cut into the threads with a cut-off tool. These are very effective and are quick when used with a 5/16 battery powered impact gun set on slow and low torque. The grooves in the threads will pull out old sealant, Loctite, and whatever else is left from the Nikasil coating processes. I've also found some grey gritty material in the oil passages, so be the guy in charge of sparkle. Finish by blowing out all holes and blow all surfaces with an air nozzle and high pressure air. I typically replace the oil galley plugs with new Porsche plugs sealed with 574. Staking them with a dull, rounded chisel or threading the passages for pipe plugs may add to your peace of mind. There are 2 sizes of these plugs. Very late blocks like the 968 used a 1mm larger plug. Finally, wipe the bores with WD40 and blue paper towels several times until the towels come out clean. Confirm your bore measurements, your piston to cylinder clearance, then you're ready to assemble. I install head studs at the correct height with only CMD Extreme Pressure Lube on the block side threads, never Loctite.
If Millennium still offers +/- .0002 tolerance without charge, strongly consider taking advantage of this. They will nail the spec.
MM
Use lots and lots of cardboard cushioning/protection when packing for shipment. Shippers will do their best to damage corners of the block when they are dropped off the conveyer or the back of the truck. They have no mercy and will be happy to demonstrate that.
When the block gets back it needs to be washed thoroughly. Clean the bores with detergent and water and a bore brush, then wash all oil passages with the proper long brushes, and all the threaded holes with your bench made thread cleaning tools (NOT taps). I use old studs and/or long bolts in each thread size with several longitudinal grooves cut into the threads with a cut-off tool. These are very effective and are quick when used with a 5/16 battery powered impact gun set on slow and low torque. The grooves in the threads will pull out old sealant, Loctite, and whatever else is left from the Nikasil coating processes. I've also found some grey gritty material in the oil passages, so be the guy in charge of sparkle. Finish by blowing out all holes and blow all surfaces with an air nozzle and high pressure air. I typically replace the oil galley plugs with new Porsche plugs sealed with 574. Staking them with a dull, rounded chisel or threading the passages for pipe plugs may add to your peace of mind. There are 2 sizes of these plugs. Very late blocks like the 968 used a 1mm larger plug. Finally, wipe the bores with WD40 and blue paper towels several times until the towels come out clean. Confirm your bore measurements, your piston to cylinder clearance, then you're ready to assemble. I install head studs at the correct height with only CMD Extreme Pressure Lube on the block side threads, never Loctite.
If Millennium still offers +/- .0002 tolerance without charge, strongly consider taking advantage of this. They will nail the spec.
MM