Page 5 of 9
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:01 pm
by blueline
Illuminating read even though it's from 2009. I imagine much of what's outlined is still the case today, especially considering the huge number of new container ships that were already scheduled to be built in 2009 and the thousands that have been built since. Supposedly, there were some new particulate emission rules that were to be put into effect but apparently much is voluntary.
Even though I'm strictly an ICE person, I don't have any problems with EV's as long as they aren't being shoved down our throats for dubious and unproven reasons that remain quite fluid regarding the long-term repercussions (battery manufacturing, recycling, infrastructure, energy production and transmission, etc.), all of which will have to be addressed.
Massive powerplants on container ships!! From the 2009 article you linked:
"One of the eight longest container ships in the world, the 1,300 ft Emma Mærsk also has the world's largest reciprocating engine. At five storeys tall and weighing 2300 tonnes, this 14 cylinder turbocharged two-stroke monster puts out 84.4 MW (114,800 hp) - up to 90MW when the motor's waste heat recovery system is taken into account. These mammoth engines consume approx 16 tons of fuel per hour or 380 tons per day while at sea."
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:52 am
by Dave W.
aboyandhisdog wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:33 pm
I like that car makers are developing alternative fuels and EV's but I can't help but feel that some of the drive to EV's may be a bit misplaced. According to this article from 2009,
https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/ IMO our efforts may be better put towards giant pollution emitters like container ships.
According to the article: "Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760 million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides (SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuel per year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 times more Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet. One large ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution in a year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds 760 million cars."
Let that sink in..."meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds 760 million cars." Yikes! An old article to be sure, but I doubt that the situation has improved. I'm just not sure that ICE vehicles are necessarily as bad as some would make them out to be. But I really don't know...
hence the move to low sulfur (aka sulphur) and ulsd diesel fuels that began in early 2000's .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:06 pm
by blueline
Dave W. wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:52 am
aboyandhisdog wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:33 pm
I like that car makers are developing alternative fuels and EV's but I can't help but feel that some of the drive to EV's may be a bit misplaced. According to this article from 2009,
https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/ IMO our efforts may be better put towards giant pollution emitters like container ships.
According to the article: "Shipping is by far the biggest transport polluter in the world. There are 760 million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulphur Oxides (SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuel per year emitting 20 million tons of Sulphur Oxides. That equates to 260 times more Sulphur Oxides being emitted by ships than the worlds entire car fleet. One large ship alone can generate approx 5,200 tonnes of sulphur oxide pollution in a year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds 760 million cars."
Let that sink in..."meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the worlds 760 million cars." Yikes! An old article to be sure, but I doubt that the situation has improved. I'm just not sure that ICE vehicles are necessarily as bad as some would make them out to be. But I really don't know...
hence the move to low sulfur (aka sulphur) and ulsd diesel fuels that began in early 2000's .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel
They mentioned the new sulphur rules (90% reduction) in that 2009 article. Hopefully, widespread compliance is in place by now from most or all nations and shippers. (What was bothersome to me was the line earlier on about many of the regulations for shipping being largely voluntary.)
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:31 am
by Slowpoke
I support ICE, I eat ICE and I drive ICE!
However, I think Hybrid is the best option, you get the benefits of both worlds.
Straight EV still has a long ways to go, I just read how 7 manufacturers will jointly build a giant network of 30,000 EV chargers. Their challenge will be to have quick charging, and of course funding by the Gov....I mean us!
And Porsche announced the 911 with be the last and only ICE in their line up....so keep that machine running folks!
Info was gathered from R&T.
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:01 am
by blueline
Slowpoke wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:31 am
I support ICE, I eat ICE and I drive ICE!
However, I think Hybrid is the best option, you get the benefits of both worlds.
Straight EV still has a long ways to go, I just read how 7 manufacturers will jointly build a giant network of 30,000 EV chargers. Their challenge will be to have quick charging, and of course funding by the Gov....I mean us!
And Porsche announced the 911 with be the last and only ICE in their line up....so keep that machine running folks!
Info was gathered from R&T.
And right on cue to your post, another excellent thought on the advantages of Hybrids from Larry Webster at Hagerty Media from June 30th:
https://www.hagerty.com/media/never-sto ... r-hybrids/
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:18 pm
by Arne2
Slowpoke wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:31 am
However, I think Hybrid is the best option, you get the benefits of both worlds.
I agree. My wife and I have owned and driven a 2016 Audi A3 Sportback e-tron (Whew! A mouthful!) as our primary car for almost 7 years now. The EV-only range isn't a lot, only about 20 miles. But it recharges at home on 220v in no more than 2 hours, so it is capable of several trips per day if we schedule it carefully. (And we are both retired, so we can watch our schedules.) So we are almost entirely EV for daily in-town use, with the little 1.4 turbo in play only on road trips. So far, our EV use has calculated to about 2/3s of our total driving for that car, and the car gets over 40 MPG (US) from the ICE on the highway. It's been a great option for us, and while I'm still a gearhead at heart, I actually enjoy the instant torque and response of the EV.
That said, I'm not a candidate to replace my 2.0L 718 Cayman with the upcoming EV. The charging infrastructure isn't good enough for me to use an EV sports car the way I use the 718. A full EV for me is still a number of years away.
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:55 pm
by blueline
Today from Autoweek:
"Mazda set to discontinue sales of its sole US electric offering after 2023 to focus on its hybrid push."
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a44692751 ... d568259d8a
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:08 pm
by aboyandhisdog
I have a nagging fear that companies that go all-in on all-electric might come to regret it. EVs make a lot of sense in dense populations or small countries where a guy can plug in at home every night, but here in the wide open USofA color me very skeptical.
That said, I'd love to have a small inexpensive EV for running around town, but beyond that I just can't see it working out.
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:21 pm
by Rich_911
I have both (a 911-4S and a Taycan Turbo-S). I like them both. The Taycan is my daily drive, and has cut my gasoline bill noticeably. For trips and airport runs we use a Yukon. Until the infrastructure is equivalent to the gas-station network (and charging is less than 1/2 hour), I doubt EVs will displace ICEs.
Re: Poll: Are you ICE or EV?
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:50 pm
by DMRK
I'm all about the ICE with a dose or two of forced induction and a glass of whiskey or bourbon. I am not opposed to EV's I think there time will come and what's not to like about all that instant torque. I am curious as to the safety of all that energy in close proximity to the occupants but time will tell. I think that the ICE will be around for a while but what needs to change is the fuel. A Taycan Turbo-S? I bet it is a blast to drive but why call it a Turbo? Most new Porsches have turbos and they don't put it on the back anymore. Also I feel there is no justification for nuclear weapons.