Cobb Tuning for the 4.0 engined cars

[Tom]

I'm guessing the best we could hope for is the Dinan and/or Champion Porsche warranty model, where those companies offered to match/mirror the factory warranty on their tuned cars. If Porsche were willing to cover performance tunes, I'd think they would just do that themselves and cut out the middleman? But Porsche has been maintaining its performance pecking order among its models forever, and probably even more so now that they've parsed each model into just about every level of performance possible -- by my count, the 718 comes in five different levels of HP, and the 911 has eight! -- that's slicing it pretty thin already.... Call me a cynic.

[Larry C]

I'm guessing the best we could hope for is the Dinan and/or Champion Porsche warranty model, where those companies offered to match/mirror the factory warranty on their tuned cars. If Porsche were willing to cover performance tunes, I'd think they would just do that themselves and cut out the middleman? But Porsche has been maintaining its performance pecking order among its models forever, and probably even more so now that they've parsed each model into just about every level of performance possible -- by my count, the 718 comes in five different levels of HP, and the 911 has eight! -- that's slicing it pretty thin already.... Call me a cynic.

Tom, you cynic! I think you may be right. With my Audi RS3, I paid extra for an APR warrantied tune. This means that APR warranties the tune for the length of time remaining on the manufacturer’s warranty. However, there is a downside. If the car needs warranty work, it has to go to an “APR Authorized Dealer.” Personally, I wouldn’t want a tuner shop doing warranty work on my car, especially a Porsche. The tuner shops typically have good technicians but they are usually not factory trained. Also, I don’t think Porsche would sell or authorize a tune that would give the GTS more HP than a GT4. They don’t roll that way.

The GTS engine is a de-tuned GT4 engine. If Porsche wanted to, they could do a software flash to give the GTS the same HP as the GT4 for a very low marginal cost. It clearly means more for Porsche to maintain their pecking order than play leapfrog with their models.

[Throttlesteer]

I'm guessing the best we could hope for is the Dinan and/or Champion Porsche warranty model, where those companies offered to match/mirror the factory warranty on their tuned cars. If Porsche were willing to cover performance tunes, I'd think they would just do that themselves and cut out the middleman? But Porsche has been maintaining its performance pecking order among its models forever, and probably even more so now that they've parsed each model into just about every level of performance possible -- by my count, the 718 comes in five different levels of HP, and the 911 has eight! -- that's slicing it pretty thin already.... Call me a cynic.

Tom, you cynic! I think you may be right. With my Audi RS3, I paid extra for an APR warrantied tune. This means that APR warranties the tune for the length of time remaining on the manufacturer’s warranty. However, there is a downside. If the car needs warranty work, it has to go to an “APR Authorized Dealer.” Personally, I wouldn’t want a tuner shop doing warranty work on my car, especially a Porsche. The tuner shops typically have good technicians but they are usually not factory trained. Also, I don’t think Porsche would sell or authorize a tune that would give the GTS more HP than a GT4. They don’t roll that way.

The GTS engine is a de-tuned GT4 engine. If Porsche wanted to, they could do a software flash to give the GTS the same HP as the GT4 for a very low marginal cost. It clearly means more for Porsche to maintain their pecking order than play leapfrog with their models.

This is my take as well. Porsche has no incentive to back a third-party tune or provide one of their own. The best you could hope for is Cobb, Softronic, or one of the others to provide their own warranty. Dinan still does post relationship with BMW. However, the difference in cost for the product with additional warranty is sometimes double than without. I wouldn't hold your breath that there will be a warranty-friendly tune one way or another. If you choose to add a tune, know that you're assuming some element of risk and responsibility. With that in mind, I believe NA tunes are a lot safer than those designed for forced induction. In the case of the 718 GTS 4.0, you're essentially tuning back what was detuned in the first place......perhaps with a bit more. But the 981 and 718 motors have also had a few documented failures in the past. I have yet to see one where a tune was involved. However, if you happened to have one at the time your motor failed, it could make the difference between a successful and unsuccessful warranty claim....even if the tune wasn't necessarily at fault.

My advice is to drive the car and enjoy it as it is. As you get closer to the warranty expiration, perhaps you consider adding the tune. At least at that point, any gremlins or potential defects would have come to light by that point. Just my dos centavos.

[Bill in Bama]

This is all conjecture at this point, but as I understand it, Porsche will honor it's new car warranty as long as Cobb is the tuner. My source is my local PCA region president whose SIL is a representative for Cobb. They may not know what they are talking about, but I would think they should. At this point in my car's life this the only way I'll install a tune since my car has already had one engine failure and were I to have any engine related issues AND have a tune installed they would most likely blame that whether it was to blame or not.

Also, this tune bumps up the GT4 as well, although admittedly to the same level as the GTS, @440 hp.

[Tom]

Is this PCA president saying that Porsche will honor the warranty on a Cobb-tuned 718 currently -- or that they plan to in the future? My dealer told me flat out that a Cobb tune (on my 992) would jeopardize the warranty if I had engine problems. That was maybe 6 months ago, and I haven't thought to ask since. Either way, I'd want to see it in writing from Porsche itself before pulling the trigger (i.e., Porsche AG or PCNA) -- not that they'd write me a letter, but somewhere in their policies or press releases I'm sure they'd say if they were backing Cobb that way. If PCNA confirms this, I'll be a Cobb customer before firing up the bbq tonight!

[Larry C]

Is this PCA president saying that Porsche will honor the warranty on a Cobb-tuned 718 currently -- or that they plan to in the future? My dealer told me flat out that a Cobb tune (on my 992) would jeopardize the warranty if I had engine problems. That was maybe 6 months ago, and I haven't thought to ask since. Either way, I'd want to see it in writing from Porsche itself before pulling the trigger (i.e., Porsche AG or PCNA) -- not that they'd write me a letter, but somewhere in their policies or press releases I'm sure they'd say if they were backing Cobb that way. If PCNA confirms this, I'll be a Cobb customer before firing up the bbq tonight!

Cobb is closed for Labor Day.

[Bill in Bama]

This is ver batim conversation, names left out to protect the guilty.

Thanks for the update Bill but you info is not entirely right. I was with Cobb S.W. writers the last two weeks at Parade, know them personally and my son in law is a sale agent for them. They are just settling a huge lawsuit and waiting on their EOA results on their Spyder tune before releasing it. Their increase is 34 bhp at the crank, 400 at the wheels. There is no required bhp by anyone and Porsche confirmed that the only S.W. tune that keeps you warranty in tact ic Cobb not softrononics or anyone else as of last week. Whoever is feeding you your info is not knowable as is normal in this field. We should some time, I have a lot of expertise in this area with a lot of people.

Typed on his phone with big thumbs and he is Army so forgive the syntax and grammar.

[Larry C]

This is ver batim conversation, names left out to protect the guilty.

Thanks for the update Bill but you info is not entirely right. I was with Cobb S.W. writers the last two weeks at Parade, know them personally and my son in law is a sale agent for them. They are just settling a huge lawsuit and waiting on their EOA results on their Spyder tune before releasing it. Their increase is 34 bhp at the crank, 400 at the wheels. There is no required bhp by anyone and Porsche confirmed that the only S.W. tune that keeps you warranty in tact ic Cobb not softrononics or anyone else as of last week. Whoever is feeding you your info is not knowable as is normal in this field. We should some time, I have a lot of expertise in this area with a lot of people.

Typed on his phone with big thumbs and he is Army so forgive the syntax and grammar.

Bill,
I hope this comes to fruition. Down the road, I’d love to get a few more ponies. Makes up for decreasing testosterone.

[Tom]

Is this PCA president saying that Porsche will honor the warranty on a Cobb-tuned 718 currently -- or that they plan to in the future? My dealer told me flat out that a Cobb tune (on my 992) would jeopardize the warranty if I had engine problems. That was maybe 6 months ago, and I haven't thought to ask since. Either way, I'd want to see it in writing from Porsche itself before pulling the trigger (i.e., Porsche AG or PCNA) -- not that they'd write me a letter, but somewhere in their policies or press releases I'm sure they'd say if they were backing Cobb that way. If PCNA confirms this, I'll be a Cobb customer before firing up the bbq tonight!

Cobb is closed for Labor Day.

I was taking poetic license.

Warranties are a lot like insurance policies. Having professionally squabbled over those for years, when push comes to shove, the thing that really matters is what's in the fine print. I went looking to see if Cobb touts this -- which you think they would if they could -- and was actually amused to see their own warranty on their own products excludes track use.

COBB COMPONENT LIMITED WARRANTY -- "This Limited Warranty is void on all products found to have been used in racing or off-road applications, of any nature whatsoever...."


So then I went looking for Porsche Cars North America Warranty, and discovered that they put out a Warranty Manual that is 75-pages long (talk about the fine print!). In that manual (for 2021), among the 30+ bullet points under the category "This Warranty Does Not Cover" are two that seem relevant:

>>Unauthorized modifications or vehicles with total loss or salvage titles.
>>Modifications not authorized by PCNA.

They also have a completely separate Taycan warranty, which I found interesting even if irrelevant to this discussion.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessories ... /warranty/

It's curious wording on a couple of levels. It's not the modification you'd want the warranty to cover, but rather the car as so modified. It also begs the question why it says unauthorized modifications twice like that -- who would authorize if not PCNA? Either way, there's more than enough there for Porsche to deny a warranty claim on a tuned car, UNLESS somewhere/somehow PCNA has approved the Cobb tune. If we can find that, I'm a Cobb customer (at some reasonably point in the near future after they return from the 3-day weekend ).

[Throttlesteer]

I'm sure there's an example out there, but I can't think of one. Have you ever heard of a manufacturer that will overlook modifications done to an otherwise stock car in the event of a warranty claim? In the aforementioned case regarding Dinan, I believe Dinan picked up the cost of any expenses BMW was unwilling to cover in the event of a failure. But, BMW never stated that they would freely accept Dinan and not have any issues honoring the original warranty if something were to break. I could be wrong.

I'm a fan of Cobb and have used their products on a number of cars. But I'm hesitant to trust sales guys that claim most people don't understand the space. Their focus is to sell their product and sometimes it comes down to playing the word game. As previously stated, the use of their products will not void your warranty. But, this is a passive position to the true concern at hand. While people are concerned with having their warranty voided, their bigger concern is whether their cars will be covered in a catastrophic engine failure. That may sound like the same thing, but it's not. Voiding a warranty is a blanket statement that happens regardless of a negative outcome. But, if Cobb claims it won't void your warranty, do they have specific language stating they or Porsche will cover repairs in the event of engine failure as a result (or suspicion) that their product contributed/caused the outcome. Different consideration altogether.

I do hope you're right and Cobb/Porsche have some type of relationship that allows for peace of mind using their products. The Dinan model wasn't perfect, but provided that kind of reassurance to BMW owners. But, much like the reported HP/TQ gains from using their products, these aftermarket companies walk the fine line of telling only the truths that promote the sale.