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Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:26 am
by Fast951
naesjr wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:11 pm
Also adding to some earlier stuff: talking to four0four off here got me into googling HG stuff. Old forum posts, so who knows how much is right but what I saw was:
Widefires seem to necessitate an o-ring'd head to gain performance. I should check my two spare 951 heads for that. Otherwise run stock, and I happen to have a spare stock head gasket already. Maybe I ought to just pull the head* and replace it with a stock hg and use the Raceware studs. MLS also came up in these forum posts, and they said don't even try without getting the block and head decked. Sounds too expensive for this project. Still do ACL rod bearings while it's out though.
*since I still need to clear debris from the cylinders, due to the motor being stored without plugs in it.
No this doesn't concern me about the rest. I've looked over it enough to know it's good to use.
If your goal is to keep a conservative budget for your build, you must keep it simple. You can use a WFR HG without an Oring! Stock head studs are fine for what you are after.
For your goal of 300rwhp, a healthy engine is all you need. A stock HG and stock studs work fine for this application. If replacing HG just upgrade it to WFR.
If you have reason to suspect the condition of the stock head studs, then replace them.
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:28 am
by danmartinic
Got it. Just seems much simpler to have a few KLR chips available at different boost levels (15 psi, 18 psi, etc) and just pop that in instead of all this extra parts & plumbing
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:32 am
by Fast951
naesjr wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:22 pm
Stupid idea incoming. Correct me if I'm wrong:
What if you had a spring based MBC in the engine bay (for example) set to 20 psi, and a bleed based MBC on the line to the KLR set to 18 psi, and the KLR was maxed at 15 psi. You would need to monitor the pressure in the boost line to the KLR (factory gauge in the cluster), and monitor the real manifold pressure via a standalone boost gauge?
Not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish with the boost controllers as you describe above!
Regardless of which boost control method you use, you must be able to accurately read boost in order to adjust. The stock boost gauge is not very accurate and is limited to 15psi. When you start adjusting boost, a dedicated boost gauge is a must!
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:38 am
by Fast951
danmartinic wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:28 am
Got it. Just seems much simpler to have a few KLR chips available at different boost levels (15 psi, 18 psi, etc) and just pop that in instead of all this extra parts & plumbing
To alter boost, do you really think it is simpler to swap chips than to adjust a knob?
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:42 am
by danmartinic
Fast951 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:38 am
To alter boost, do you really think it is simpler to swap chips than to adjust a knob?
Right.. not simpler.. perhaps safer or less error-prone with installation and possible adjustment error etc (and keeps EBC system in tact)
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:46 am
by danmartinic
Funny story: the only reason I initially removed the CV and installed a bleeder MBC knob was to save money: a pressure leak test revealed my CV was leaking air and the knob was cheaper than a new CV.
Understanding the knob as some sort of upgrade, I figured wow I can get something better for cheaper. I had no big desire to alter boost--just improve on an air leak. Little did I understand I was replacing a sophisticated EBC system with a cheap little air pressure regulator lol
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:48 pm
by stitch2k1
Fast951 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:26 am
If your goal is to keep a conservative budget for your build, you must keep it simple. You can use a WFR HG without an Oring! Stock head studs are fine for what you are after.
For your goal of 300rwhp, a healthy engine is all you need. A stock HG and stock studs work fine for this application. If replacing HG just upgrade it to WFR.
If you have reason to suspect the condition of the stock head studs, then replace them.
I think I'm actually going to go for a stock head gasket, since I have one already, and to leave the studs for now. Just focus on doing rod bearings, and the head gasket so I can clear the cylinders out. My friend
@brad.951 made an argument that the Raceware studs are best saved for a project shooting for 400whp or more, since they are expensive.
Fast951 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:32 am
Not sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish with the boost controllers as you describe above!
Stupid ideas. :^)
Fast951 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:32 am
Regardless of which boost control method you use, you must be able to accurately read boost in order to adjust. The stock boost gauge is not very accurate and is limited to 15psi. When you start adjusting boost, a dedicated boost gauge is a must!
100%
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:04 pm
by zoom944t
Can confirm. "You can use the Bosch 3 Bar FPR with the stock fuel rail. Looks just like the factory one. That's what I use."
Pressure gauge up front is a nice finish as well.
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:08 pm
by zoom944t
I ultimately upgraded to a Lindsey adjustable FPR and have been happy with it as well.
Re: 300whp 951 on a budget
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:24 pm
by MoeMonney
I have a stock 86 944 turbo and want to get a reliable 300 wheel HP. Would a chip, 3 bar FPR and exhaust do it? I have a 928 motorsports head gasket, silicone boost hoses. The car is currently being restored by Edredas.