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chris white wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:08 am
TIG welders sure have come along way since I got my 350lb Lincoln!
Aluminum is still pretty tricky stuff to weld nicely - your catch can looks pretty good.
I welded nothing but aluminum for the first several years. I had a MIG for steel so thought of the TIG as my aluminum welder. When I finally had the need to TIG mild steel, it almost felt like I was cheating.... It's not that aluminum is so much more difficult, it's that steel is so much easier. Seriously, learn on Aluminum and 'normal' welding becomes a piece of cake. I haven't used the MIG in years. Last time I used it was on the rust 951 battery box. Not that I'm all that good at welding -- I'm NOT -- but good enough to get the job done most of the time.
Yes. I have a thermal arc 186. Now ESAB. I had to tig my own exhaust pipes for my Audi engine swap. And was going to build my own 944 down pipe, but life has gotten in the way the last couple years. I went as far as doing CAD for my own turbo flange to matchup to my voodoo turbo as it was a 2.75 outlet and I could not find anyone at the time making a flange larger than 2.5. And there were not good options for a full 3” down pipe 3 years ago when I started this. I actually sold extra flanges along with copper baskets I had made as I had to make a min production run. Emanuel bought some in the beginning and then took off with that and started having them CNC instead of water jet cut.
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Don’t fall for the ‘cheap’ welders. My first mig was a cheapie (“silver beauty”) 35 years ago, after a while I went to a “century” - a bit better. Eventually bought a Miller and there is a serious difference in weld quality!
chris white wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:24 am
as always - just my opinion.....
just like everything else there are cheap v bands and there are good v bands.
cheap ones suck. the good ones have an interlocking flange that only allows correct alignment. They usually have a clamp of much higher quality too.
If you are doing a simple rebuild of the stock turbo then I get the desire for a 'drop in' turbo. Once you decide that you want a significant upgrade then why not upgrade the 'system'. worrying about who has the best bolt on down pipe seems a little off base to me. with the amount of time a effort to remove a stock turbo and replace it with an upgraded turbo along with a better down pipe seems like it would make sense used the best available stuff. an off the shelf GTX30 or 35 with the very nice Tial hot side can be installed with some DIY effort for the oil/water connections - and not cost much more than the high end 'drop in' turbo and down pipe.
BTW1 - the ease of clocking the down pipe is worth every cent of the v band solution. once you get in to all the variables of test pipe fabricators and subtle difference in everything the agility to realign the down pipe saves a lot of headaches. in fact its way easier to bolt the downpipe to the test pipe and then install the assembly as one piece....if you have the v band connection on the hot side!
BTW2 - if you want to get into modifying 944 turbo's as a cheap hobby....well, you made a mistake!
Its kinda getting off topic from the post about downpipe reviews but why would I wanna custom fit, cut and grind my car to fit an older generation turbo like the GTX30 when compared to a better turbo that drops in such as the voodoo that I'm using? Sounds like a lot of work and not much gain just because its "off the shelf".
I guess its more of a, I'm looking for and trying to target for other consumers a as close to bolt in options for myself and others that gives the best bang for the buck and best quality, then a guy like yourself who owns a performance shop and can basically custom build whatever you need. Again this review was about currently available aftermarket pipes from venders. Not who can build it better in their shop. Unless you offer a downpipe as a vender and I just didn't know I'd be happy to include it in the review if you'd be willing to loan me one. Otherwise by all means, build whatever you'd like for yourself and current engine builds.
I also agree, it is silly talking about budgets and then showing stainless crossovers but the decision about the downpipe doesnt really have a ton to do with the crossover as its function wouldn't change nor would the assembly/disassembly. I happened to get a deal on that one, since its a prototype that the new current generation will be based off of (minor flange changes/improvements), being a prototype id rather not discuss price but I was able to snag it on the cheaper side of what you might think.
In the past I have used speedforce downpipes...which are the fabspeed pipe modified for a V band clamp. I have been having a lot more issues getting SFR stuff on a timely basis so I may have to go elsewhere or fab my own. I'll agree that the M44 pipe looks like it is made very well and thats a plus - will it make more power? I would guess (educated guess) that the difference is almost immeasurable. I have had no trouble making 400rwhp through a completely stock exhaust on a stock internal 2.5.
if the M44 was available with a good v band end to match the tail hotside I would be on board!
chris white wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:56 pm
In the past I have used speedforce downpipes...which are the fabspeed pipe modified for a V band clamp. I have been having a lot more issues getting SFR stuff on a timely basis so I may have to go elsewhere or fab my own. I'll agree that the M44 pipe looks like it is made very well and thats a plus - will it make more power? I would guess (educated guess) that the difference is almost immeasurable. I have had no trouble making 400rwhp through a completely stock exhaust on a stock internal 2.5.
if the M44 was available with a good v band end to match the tail hotside I would be on board!
Yeah you aren’t the first to have issues with SFR, and yes they are available With good stainless vband hot housings, he builds each one to the customers needs. I would have loved to do a dyno back to back on each tube… but as you stated we all know how much that would suck to do… and I don’t have the cash for the dyno time maybe one day…. But I’m willing to bet the bigger M44 pipe makes better power and better spool then any of the current competitors, now it may just be 5-10hp it could be 20. But the numbers show it technically should. This is by no means a sales pitch and was never meant to be, I make nothing if you buy or don’t. But I’d definitely drop M44 a line and see what he can do for you, doesn’t hurt to support the new companies
Yeah you aren’t the first to have issues with SFR, and yes they are available With good stainless vband hot housings, he builds each one to the customers needs. I would have loved to do a dyno back to back on each tube… but as you stated we all know how much that would suck to do… and I don’t have the cash for the dyno time maybe one day…. But I’m willing to bet the bigger M44 pipe makes better power and better spool then any of the current competitors, now it may just be 5-10hp it could be 20. But the numbers show it technically should. This is by no means a sales pitch and was never meant to be, I make nothing if you buy or don’t. But I’d definitely drop M44 a line and see what he can do for you, doesn’t hurt to support the new companies
A little off topic - i'm working on a custom car with the Lindsey intake manifold and a V band GTX 35 series turbo. I bet I could have the turbo out and sitting on the bench in 15 minutes! 2 clamps, 2 bolts, oil line and two coolant lines. I am not a massive fan of the Lindsey manifold but man is it easy to work with!
I have talked to Emanuel quite a bit in the past, he is making some nice products but sometimes the marketing claims get a little to heavy handed for my taste. Yes, most of the stuff looks very nice....let the products do the talking instead of massive improvement claims. I do know the physics...my father was a physics prof at Cornell and went on to run the particle physics lab at Los Alamos. I grew up playing around particle accelerators. Between SFR/Fabspeed/Lindsey and M44 i doubt you woudl see more than 5hp difference - which is basically down in the noise floor of a dynos measurement capability....but it does look nice - I will give it that. BTW - I would cut off the block mount. I am from the racing world and that woudl just slow down any quick field fix.
Yeah you aren’t the first to have issues with SFR, and yes they are available With good stainless vband hot housings, he builds each one to the customers needs. I would have loved to do a dyno back to back on each tube… but as you stated we all know how much that would suck to do… and I don’t have the cash for the dyno time maybe one day…. But I’m willing to bet the bigger M44 pipe makes better power and better spool then any of the current competitors, now it may just be 5-10hp it could be 20. But the numbers show it technically should. This is by no means a sales pitch and was never meant to be, I make nothing if you buy or don’t. But I’d definitely drop M44 a line and see what he can do for you, doesn’t hurt to support the new companies
A little off topic - i'm working on a custom car with the Lindsey intake manifold and a V band GTX 35 series turbo. I bet I could have the turbo out and sitting on the bench in 15 minutes! 2 clamps, 2 bolts, oil line and two coolant lines. I am not a massive fan of the Lindsey manifold but man is it easy to work with!
I have talked to Emanuel quite a bit in the past, he is making some nice products but sometimes the marketing claims get a little to heavy handed for my taste. Yes, most of the stuff looks very nice....let the products do the talking instead of massive improvement claims. I do know the physics...my father was a physics prof at Cornell and went on to run the particle physics lab at Los Alamos. I grew up playing around particle accelerators. Between SFR/Fabspeed/Lindsey and M44 i doubt you woudl see more than 5hp difference - which is basically down in the noise floor of a dynos measurement capability....but it does look nice - I will give it that. BTW - I would cut off the block mount. I am from the racing world and that woudl just slow down any quick field fix.
I have gotten lazy in my old age, but used to go to the dyno a lot to check parts etc. Virtually nothing makes the HP you think it might. All other parts unchanged, I'd take the under on your 5hp guestimate, at least for anything not making pretty massive power. That said, it does look better made than the others, and that counts for something too, and no reason not to pick the biggest one you can if the flange set-up works for you. Don't get me started on the block bolt. I'm sure they lock things in place better, and as the Porsche Gods intended, but man I hate installing those things. Haven't used one in 20 years, with no problems.
DGUNS -- any interest in doing a cat-back muffler comparison? I'm still using the old SFR group buy muffler, but have been ready for something new for a long time. It's just really hard to get a sense of what the various options actually sound like on car....
Yeah you aren’t the first to have issues with SFR, and yes they are available With good stainless vband hot housings, he builds each one to the customers needs. I would have loved to do a dyno back to back on each tube… but as you stated we all know how much that would suck to do… and I don’t have the cash for the dyno time maybe one day…. But I’m willing to bet the bigger M44 pipe makes better power and better spool then any of the current competitors, now it may just be 5-10hp it could be 20. But the numbers show it technically should. This is by no means a sales pitch and was never meant to be, I make nothing if you buy or don’t. But I’d definitely drop M44 a line and see what he can do for you, doesn’t hurt to support the new companies
A little off topic - i'm working on a custom car with the Lindsey intake manifold and a V band GTX 35 series turbo. I bet I could have the turbo out and sitting on the bench in 15 minutes! 2 clamps, 2 bolts, oil line and two coolant lines. I am not a massive fan of the Lindsey manifold but man is it easy to work with!
I have talked to Emanuel quite a bit in the past, he is making some nice products but sometimes the marketing claims get a little to heavy handed for my taste. Yes, most of the stuff looks very nice....let the products do the talking instead of massive improvement claims. I do know the physics...my father was a physics prof at Cornell and went on to run the particle physics lab at Los Alamos. I grew up playing around particle accelerators. Between SFR/Fabspeed/Lindsey and M44 i doubt you woudl see more than 5hp difference - which is basically down in the noise floor of a dynos measurement capability....but it does look nice - I will give it that. BTW - I would cut off the block mount. I am from the racing world and that woudl just slow down any quick field fix.
That’s cool, sounds like you had a fun childhood…. Like I said, this isn’t a sales pitch at all. Just reviewing and comparing downpipes and sharing my opinion, I don’t really want to cut the tab off, it was there from the factory for a reason and I don’t track the car plus I can’t imagine what type of failure would need that to come out, unless your swapping turbos at the track? , anyway it will stay on my car. Regardless of whatever hp rating it would have, it would be fun to test, could log spool, back pressure, EGT’s and HP and compare maybe we’d find something Intresting.
Seriously, learn on Aluminum and 'normal' welding becomes a piece of cake. 
All other parts unchanged, I'd take the under on your 5hp guestimate, at least for anything not making pretty massive power. That said, it does look better made than the others, and that counts for something too, and no reason not to pick the biggest one you can if the flange set-up works for you. Don't get me started on the block bolt. I'm sure they lock things in place better, and as the Porsche Gods intended, but man I hate installing those things. Haven't used one in 20 years, with no problems.